Lore issue with holy nation tech

[lucidmadness]

Crossbow MKIIs need ancient science books to research, which are illegal in holy nation territory, yet the holy nation uses crossbow MKIIs in their bases, so I guess what I'm saying is that they are corrupt by using the ancient tech, or they should not use any tech that requires ancient books.

If anybody notices any tech the holy nation should not have please feel free to add so the devs know.

[Sol Lignum]

Well, for one, not all of the Holy Nation are fanatically devout. I remember stumbling upon dialogue, with construction trader it was, i think, where upon mentioning ancient science books he tells: "Keep quite, those are forbidden here, ask in World's End". So if some aren't so willing to burn you for asking, you may assume that others won't be very hesitant to use ancient knowledge.

Then, nobody said they've actually produced it in the house, the item might've been looted or bought, and they probably don't even have a clue it requires ancient tech to build. For them it just shoots sticks far.

Also, some evidence suggest that Holy Nation ruling class isn't so clueless about ancients, so they might as well use those books secretly from time to time.

[lucidmadness]

honestly i like the idea of the leaders being corrupt, seeing as how for over 1000 years religious institutions were, or still are.

but we have no in game lore to really go along with that idea too. from the books i read anyway

[swillo]

The way I imagine it;
Actually only you need the books to learn how to build the tech. The holy nation has been around for a thousand years and who knows where they first got the tech they have. They might have learned it from before the cataclysm and just never lost the skill. This would be true of their ability to create high quality armor and weapons which require specialize forges as well. These skills would be passed down from master to apprentice for generations. So they are able to continue to make things that you have yet to learn. And their prohibition on ancient science books and such is more about them keeping their tactical advantage. They don't want to spread the skills far and wide if they don't control them.

[Neteman]

IMHO everlasting civilizations used to find ways to dodge their own rules whenever it seems to be handy.
Ancient Japanese where as anti-tech as the Holy Nation, but they used fireguns as soon as we do and even sooner (bohiya were... a non explosive rocket called "fire arrows" and were launch from hiya zutsu, that were kind of a RPG). Later they got the deadly Hiya Taigou, or rocket launchers, explosive this time. They even used handguns like the Tanegashima from the XVI cent.
All this tech were out of date compared with european versions that developed powder technology faster and this is an interesting aproach. HN could have the lower tiers of high-tech, like having crossbows while the other civilizations have harpoons or something.

[Full Frontal Yeti]

Crossbow MKIIs need ancient science books to research, which are illegal in holy nation territory, yet the holy nation uses crossbow MKIIs in their bases, so I guess what I'm saying is that they are corrupt by using the ancient tech, or they should not use any tech that requires ancient books.

If anybody notices any tech the holy nation should not have please feel free to add so the devs know.

Well better late than never i say.
The answer is, more story telling in your own mind to get to an lore plausible situation.

The evidence the game gives us is that IF you want to figure out how to make a Crossbow MKII, YOU will need an ancient science book to figure that out for yourself.

And at what time in game did we ever receive any evidence that anyone in the HN personally figured out to make a Crossbow MKII?
If we did not personally witness or be told about such an event by an NPC, then you the player have ASSUMED what went on here, and it is your assumptions that fall outside the lore foul line.

I have not pesoanlly witnessed anywhere yet any HN citizen producing Crossbow MKII.
Though obviously they may use them or accept them as legit commerce items.
But just because i know how to use a car IRL, this in now way indicates i also know how to build one.

Additionally, the forbidden book is only needed when you personally want to figure it out on your own.
However someone else teaching you how to make a Crossbow MKII, would be a different situation than that you had a book of forbidden knowledge.

As in, how to make a crossbow, r how to use a crossbow, is a thing someone can be shown how to do, while still not having any understanding of the physics that make it all work(the book knowledge).


So in terms of lore story making sense. I find there is nothing weird about a culture that embraces the practical function of a crossbow, while rejecting the knowledge of the natural world that makes the crossbow possible. IRL we can be masterful at the use of a tool, while having no clue how that tool is created or the fundamental physics that make it do what it can do.
Also medicine/chemicals that are both good and dangerous.
We can reject allowing anyone to freely own, use, or distribute substance X. But we may be totally ok with the production, sale and use of a finished good that uses substance X in it/in its production process.
So they can totally be against people roaming the streets with hemp, but ok with the use and sale of the medical kits that took hemp to make.
IRL, a good example would be Ionization smoke alarms. They contain a tiny bit of radio active material, that is not legal to own and distribute in its raw form in quantity, without special licensing. But of course anyone can just buy a Ionization smoke alarm kinda just wherever no hassles.

So this is why this situation can, while seemingly irratinla, be actually very normal. We can find examples of this sort of situation IRL quite commonly. So nothing out of the norm/unrealistic about HN being ok with the use of some "advanced tech" it is the knowledge of how it all works, that is what they are averse to really.
To know that if you pull back on this and then press this button it will fling this bolt. That's not the same as also understanding all the physics of the world so well, you would just understand what a crossbow was going to do, even if you had not seen one before, simply by looking at it.

That you know to expect the rains at the right time of year, because god makes it so. IS not the same as knowing to expect the rains because you understand the natural phenomenon of weather patterns.
Both may accurately predict the rains, but only one actually has real knowledge about it.
One of those would be a good HN citizen, the other is a heretic.