Encumbrance system

[jtgibson]

I just want to say that I absolutely adore the encumbrance system in its current incarnation and don't think the lower threshold needs to be relaxed at all. If you're carrying six swords slung across your back in their scabbards with no backpack to speak of, all of that mess is going to be just terrible for your ability to carry them, what with the swords in their scabbards bouncing all over, interfering with your elbows, getting caught up in one another, bumping your back as you walk, shifting their weight, etc.

What I would suggest, however, is that backpacks provide a percentage reduction on how encumbering things are. Encumbrance is not just a factor of weight, after all, but a function of weight, volume, and especially weight distribution. While the latter two are already partially simulated with the "grid" system, it doesn't capture the whole equation: if you were to put all of those swords with their scabbards into a large or medium backpack, all of their bouncing would then be constrained to the inside of a packed area which bears all of the bouncing and weight entirely on the shoulders: this is much easier to handle. I would thereby think of a backpack not as an "inventory expander" but as an "inventory convenientiser". (Yes, any noun can be verbed.)

That would still not fully reconcile the "newbie problem", but a simple solution to that would be to give PCs a backpack to start with, and possibly to remove the "Open Bag" UI feature and simply work the backpack inventory space into a "blank" portion of the UI that gains a grid of corresponding size when you wear your backpack.

[Blxz]

a function of weight, volume, and especially weight distribution.

An excellent post. It also opens up the research function into more efficient weight distribution (reduction percentage) for some backpacks. Should work well with promised future game mechanics.

(Yes, any noun can be verbed.)[/i].

grid.

Keyboard

testicle

tomatosauce (or ketchup if you would prefer)

=)

[Cat_Fuzz]

Also agree. Only I wouldn't say everyone starts with a backpack - you can just buy one instead.

[Captain Deathbeard]

Interesting point. Maybe a system where backpacks reduce the encumbrance, but hinder you in combat as a trade-off.

[Hedgehog-dono]

If you think about how exactly one guy is carrying Four Sabers with him and wielding another, you have to ask yourself exactly how he's doing it (without backpack). Perhaps module weight would work. Each area can hold some weight depending on str. Arms would be able to hold a bit, but would hinder combat and back (backpack) would be able to hold a lot and be less of a hindrance to a combat situation.

Arm/leg pouches, Bandolier, belts, backpacks etc. Would be able to spread the weight quite well between body parts and keep things a bit more realistic (with pouches only being able to hold small things and a backpack being a requirement to carry extra swords).

An example of a personal container's effects could be along the lines of:
Arm pouches - reduced combat abilities (perhaps increased attack with lower frequency if you consider the extra weight in a downwards chop)

This also brings up another point regarding clothes (This may already be covered), They could also offer reduced stats in return for higher defence.

[Mattk50]

the issue with backpacks impeding combat performance is the ability to just drop the backpack as soon as you get into combat and pick it up later. Could encourage a bit too much micro management... and give players an advantage over AI who dont do it.

Anywho, there is one thing i'd consider chanigng about it, maybe a slightly bigger weight cap. And perhaps heavy armor should still have penalties even when your within your encumberance limit... theres a game called MO that has a similar system and people just always use the heaviest armor they can without being encumbered. does weight still impact weapon speed and stuff even if not encumbered?

[Wolven]

With the traders packs, the stacking of the items does not affect encumbrance. Which I believe (Intentional or not) is rather good for using the pack. But having a trade-off for combat effectiveness would be a nice thing to see. Encourages you to have certain characters for hauling and others for defending them. Much like the caravan traders you see wandering around.

[Blxz]

Interesting idea matt. Maybe some sort of delay in taking off the backpack? I still think it should be possible to do some micromanaging. If the player wants to then by all means, let them be masochistic with a huge squad. But if you add a small time function (like the locking of a door) to removing a backpack it will hinder that micro aspect while also making yourself more vulnerable to ambushes but not cutting into the realism factor.

[Captain Deathbeard]

Its done. Backpacks now half the weight of their contents when worn. They also restrict your combat skills, more so with the bigger ones. Update 0.29.5, is coming out today.

By the way, stacked items DO affect backpack weight.

the issue with backpacks impeding combat performance is the ability to just drop the backpack as soon as you get into combat and pick it up later. Could encourage a bit too much micro management... and give players an advantage over AI who dont do it.

Anywho, there is one thing i'd consider chanigng about it, maybe a slightly bigger weight cap. And perhaps heavy armor should still have penalties even when your within your encumberance limit... theres a game called MO that has a similar system and people just always use the heaviest armor they can without being encumbered. does weight still impact weapon speed and stuff even if not encumbered?

It would be easy to add backpack-dumping to the AI. I might do it later on.

Encumbrance is a soft limit, encumbrance is shown in your GUI as a percentage, so if its 0% then its having no effect on anything, if you go just over your limit a small amount, then it will only have a tiny effect on things. Its not like Skyrim where you go over a set limit and suddenly you cant run.

[Blxz]

Its done. Backpacks now half the weight of their contents when worn. They also restrict your combat skills, more so with the bigger ones. Update 0.29.5, is coming out today.

Woot. Looking forward to it. This game has really picked up the pace recently.

[Mattk50]

Encumbrance is a soft limit, encumbrance is shown in your GUI as a percentage, so if its 0% then its having no effect on anything, if you go just over your limit a small amount, then it will only have a tiny effect on things. Its not like Skyrim where you go over a set limit and suddenly you cant run.

Aye, this is how its done in MO too. its just that, if you are a certain strength then there's no point using any armor thats lighter than the weight capacity that gives you. Like, if you want to wear light armor with your high lvl character because you like the idea of being a lightly armored speedy swordmaster there's no benifit to it if you have the strength, you might as well wear the heaviest you can without being encumbered.

What i'd suggest is that all equipped items (backpacks, armor, weapons) impact your attack speed directly without having to go through the encumbered system. But it would also impact you less than being encumbered for the weight, in a sense, just to make it worth using lighter things if you want to go with that playstyle.

Or maybe encumberence could be implemented in a way so a character carrying anything is always encumbered, and strength just reduces the factor? like, a person with 50 weight and 50 strength could be 10% encumbered and a person with 50 weight and 100 strength could be 5% or something.

[wolfwood296]

this idea is great, but but wouldn't the back give you protection from guys that are to your back?


also matt what is the games acually name?

[Mattk50]

its called mortal online, its a sandbox MMO.