Overzealous Slavers

[Mattk50]

I noticed the holy paladin slaver behavior is a bit basic, they just take anyone they see who is unconscious regardless of their alignment. I feel like holy paladin slavers who are ordinarily friendly to you should only be enslaving you if you are a criminal or their enemy, because right now if you are fighting near one of their mining camps and just one of your dudes drops, a slaver will run up to up and slap shackles on him right away, forcing your whole group to fight them. They seem to prioritize your people rather than the 20 hungry bandits you just incapacitated, too. If it can be done, it would be nice for them to enslave you only if your whole party drops, the idea being that you are weak enough that they know they can get away with it.

I do like the idea of a hostile slaver group though, i'd love to see dust bandits or some other factions attack and attempt to enslave you on sight (if they think they can take your squad on) but it just doesn't make sense to me for an otherwise friendly faction to be preying on your wounded. If im a criminal, or if i've made enemies with them, it makes sense, but otherwise its really a bit much. As a trade off, it might be fun if slaver parties sometimes came through major cities to take people in the prisons out to slave in the mines, whether or not you got caught by slavers would be a gamble you take when deciding to be a criminal.

[haunter12a]

Agreed I just had a big battle in hive territory with beak things and loads of soldiers drones got KO then slavers just stroll in and enslave them. but it gets better I attack the slavers and try to free the solider drones then the workers attack me for stealing haha.

[Berzerker Jay]

I don't think a faction should ever attack you for freeing their slaves. Most especially not a faction that is opposed to slavery, at the very least!

[haunter12a]

Agreed!

[Mattk50]

The problem right now is that enslaving an unconcious person isn't seen as a hostile action. if it was, the hivers would attack the slavers for trying it and you would be allowed to help them fight. Or maybe slavers wouldnt even try to enslave people they arent hostile to.

[Berzerker Jay]

Should be seen as a hostile action.

Think about it. Your neighbour is laying unconscious in the street, and suddenly a group of slavers approaches and starts shackling your neighbour, a person you regularly interact with and maybe even share meals with.

You're not going to consider this a peaceful act. Whether you do anything to stop it may come down to whether you feel you have the power to stop it, but you're most reasonably going to want to stop it because capturing and kidnapping someone into slavery is absolutely a hostile act.

[Berzerker Jay]

I can understand it not being considered hostile in specific circumstances, but that should by no means be the default. A couple examples where I think the exception would apply:

-- Holy Nation capturing slaves in Holy Nation territory, it should be rare for NPC's to respond as if it's a hostile act.

-- In a territory where slavery is normalized.

-- Capturing attackers (if they can be flagged that way still even when unconscious) or enslaving criminals in territories where such rules exist.

I think slavery would be vastly improved by changing this dynamic.

[ukas]

I don't see current way as really wrong. In historical slaver nations and empires such as Rome, some times "normal" people lost their rights and/or their citizenhood and were put to slavery because of several reasons, like as a form of punishment, or just out of pure greed - slavers have always liked money.

If we think about what kind of values the Holy Empire has, like racism and misogynism, then it would make sense that they should not pick up people who in their minds have the builds needed to be recognized as a free person with full civil rights on their lands. Basically this would be the human males alone. Another group could be the creatures they normally attack and try to kill on sight, like the skeletons. Slavers wouldn't pick up the Skeletons, because their prospective masters would only kill them. So, why see the trouble?

Following the logic these nations had at the time, slaves would be taken mainly from groups the Holy Empire categorizes as having rights to exist but which they deem clearly inferior to themselves, like the Hivers or the Sheks, and also human females. The human males would be applicable if they meet certain conditions, like if they are criminal or poor enough - or sometimes if they just happen to be in a wrong place at the wrong time.

[Mattk50]

I don't see current way as really wrong.

It's wrong because a hive wouldn't let slavers just steal half it's population without batting an eye, the rest of your post has nothing to do with that.

[ukas]

I don't see current way as really wrong.

It's wrong because a hive wouldn't let slavers just steal half it's population without batting an eye, the rest of your post has nothing to do with that.

Quite right, English is not my first language, so sometimes I don't read as good as I should. Besides I read a post in Steam forum about slavers doing this and that, but yours especially now that I read it again and separately makes much better points. Yeah, it's true, there should be a chance for the hivers and the player as well to prevent slavers from taking your people. Maybe a talk option, you could say something like "Hey this one is with me!" and if they resisted - maybe you could at least fight without penalties such as bounties or relationship drops?

[Zeal]

Based on the lore, i could actually see them enslaving shek, or hive without surface hesitation. Based on what the lore defines female humans as, they wouldn't enslave female humans to work in mines though, regardless of if they hate you in terms of standings or not. They'd rather see you dead, as i'm sure they wouldn't approve of a "seductress" running around in their mines in rags. Unsure if they consider female shek with the same view though.

In regards to human males though, I definately agree that it should be based on standing. If you don't have a negative standing with them, i'd assume it would emulate a somewhat approval and acceptance of their religion. And with a higher standing, a simple follower of Okran.

Perhaps if your faction has a high enough standing with them though, they wouldn't enslave your skek and hive for the fact that they'd assume they are YOUR slaves already, and since you're following Okran, they would be stealing from Okran. So I think even having localized laws and practices that differ from faction to faction can still play a part to be compatible with standings.

As for factions and squads not responding to their companions being enslaved, that does need to change. There doesn't seem to be any reprocussions anywhere for the action. Seems unrealistic to me.

[Loengrinn]

The overall point has been kind of missed by now. The lore not being a factor, the slavers travel in packs, and there's an insane amount of them, and they just put whoever is knocked out in their path in chains, and no one even bats an eyelash.

And if you try to and save one of your group, you end up having to attack them because they'll enslave that person even if another one of your group is freaking patching them up in that very moment.

From a gameplay aspect this is very VERY broken. The most immediate and impactful solution is to drop their numbers significantly. I should not be able to see 3 packs of slavers on the same screen when I'm zoomed in enough to see the armors in very clear detail. That's just massive overpopulation.

While obviously fixing some of the coding so that slavers can't just slap chains on anyone they see lying on the ground is definitely the BETTER solution, there are still simply way too many slavers wandering around doing whatever they want and you as the player having to deal with it.

[Berzerker Jay]

I definitely think slaving shouldn't be attempted while first aid is being given. That is a rather absurd gameplay situation. And as far as realism, even moreso.

[Zeal]

The overall point has been kind of missed by now. The lore not being a factor, the slavers travel in packs, and there's an insane amount of them, and they just put whoever is knocked out in their path in chains, and no one even bats an eyelash.

Wait, are you talking about 0.7x?
Because in 0.9x i've only seen about 2 slavers, and i've never actually seen anyone get shackled. I can definately understand the complaint in 0.7x though.

Lore is a very concrete factor in 0.9x as to who they should and shouldn't shackle. Much more of a factor than "It's annoying to me". Because lore specifics could define the control variable of whether or not they shackle people, rather than them simply shackling everyone and anyone they see. "It's too basic. Add some color/reason". Why are they shackling, what are they shackling for, and what reprocussions should happen when they do. How should other factions react to it?

In 0.9x, "committing crime" is based on the factions that see you and if they care or not what you're doing to another faction. You won't aggro the world by attacking a slaver. If you attack a slaver that's in a squad, it makes sense that they all attack you regardless of your "reasons". There is no arguing that. Pick up your squaddie and book it, don't get yourself knocked out alone, or become strong enough to defend yourself from them if it happens.

Regardless, in 0.9x they certainly aren't everywhere, so that's not as much of an issue anymore.

[philthymcnasty]

The overall point has been kind of missed by now. The lore not being a factor, the slavers travel in packs, and there's an insane amount of them, and they just put whoever is knocked out in their path in chains, and no one even bats an eyelash.

Wait, are you talking about 0.7x?
Because in 0.9x i've only seen about 2 slavers, and i've never actually seen anyone get shackled. I can definately understand the complaint in 0.7x though.

Lore is a very concrete factor in 0.9x as to who they should and shouldn't shackle. Much more of a factor than "It's annoying to me". Because lore specifics could define the control variable of whether or not they shackle people, rather than them simply shackling everyone and anyone they see. "It's too basic. Add some color/reason". Why are they shackling, what are they shackling for, and what reprocussions should happen when they do. How should other factions react to it?

In 0.9x, "committing crime" is based on the factions that see you and if they care or not what you're doing to another faction. You won't aggro the world by attacking a slaver. If you attack a slaver that's in a squad, it makes sense that they all attack you regardless of your "reasons". There is no arguing that. Pick up your squaddie and book it, don't get yourself knocked out alone, or become strong enough to defend yourself from them if it happens.

Regardless, in 0.9x they certainly aren't everywhere, so that's not as much of an issue anymore.

Oh they are VERY over zealous in the 91.x branch.

If they are near by, and someone goes down, that someone is now a slave. and if someone is too weak to be a slave, then their dog will eat them.

They have dogs that eat weak people.

I suspect that they are drawn to beatings. I have a bunch of KO'd bandits around my base, and from time to time the slavers show up, and carry them off. I have mixed feelings about this.

One one hand, its very nice for them to clean up my yard for me, but on the other, i had them lying there for a reason. Blood makes the grass grow, but it also attracts dogs, which are full of meat, teeth, and leather.

Worse still, i have not paid attention, and attacked their dogs, which they do not like.

Even crazier, i took the teeth from one, and apparently it survived, so now the teeth are stuck in my inventory. I can't move them without getting a "target still conscious" message. It somehow survived.

[Zeal]

Oh they are VERY over zealous in the 91.x branch.

If they are near by, and someone goes down, that someone is now a slave. and if someone is too weak to be a slave, then their dog will eat them.

They have dogs that eat weak people.

I suspect that they are drawn to beatings. I have a bunch of KO'd bandits around my base, and from time to time the slavers show up, and carry them off. I have mixed feelings about this.

One one hand, its very nice for them to clean up my yard for me, but on the other, i had them lying there for a reason. Blood makes the grass grow, but it also attracts dogs, which are full of meat, teeth, and leather.

Worse still, i have not paid attention, and attacked their dogs, which they do not like.

Even crazier, i took the teeth from one, and apparently it survived, so now the teeth are stuck in my inventory. I can't move them without getting a "target still conscious" message. It somehow survived.

I've heard these horror stories, but passing 100 hours in 0.9x, I have not had any issues with them. But I did see a few bandits get shackled a little while ago near one of my outposts (finally).

I suspect it might be tied to playstyle though.. These days when units get knocked unconscious, they aren't lying on the ground for long before I pick them up and run them to a nearby outpost. I did however start as a female human wanderer, and have had a pick out for holy nation since the start. Whenever I did get knocked out, i was left there alone. They just left..

Area.. Playstyle. I'm not sure what else it could be, but maybe I've just been lucky.

[killerx243]

I haven't dealt with the Holy Nation slavers but my base is constantly being walked through by slave traders.

We had a nice, peaceful arrangement where I would let them gather people and then leave junk all over my lawn but then they enslaved my scientist. At first I handled it peacefully; I walked over and picked her up, this allowed me to steal her back without causing a fuss. After this happened a few times I started acting accordingly. I borrowed some armor for my fighters. They don't like the idea too much and now will attack most of the time and lose to the mercs that took forever to show up for work and my now somewhat good fighters.

Its kind of a shame I cannot get our relations to improve because my bases walls are almost complete and then they can have all the bandits they want from the front gate