I'VE BEEN ROBBED!

[Jinko]

I think that the AI like bandits and enemys should be able to steal or take the users items making the players gameplay difficult, who thinks that they should?

[Clawdius Talonious]

There is a Feature Requests forum for this sort of thing, this particular topic has been discussed in depth here: http://www.lofigames.com/phpBB3/viewtop ... =16&t=2700

The search function is helpful for finding these sorts of things.

[Lupine]

Actually a small variation to the being robbed of coinage, etc concept would be to incorporate the practice the Knights Templar had of issuing a coded "note of hand". Basically it is something like a debit/credit card, the idea being if a player faction became strong enough and had enough outposts that travelers could visit to receive/redeem the notes then that player could set up a system whereby they become bankers. The following link describes how the Knights Templar actually did it in the 12th century along with running what amounted to a package tour industry revolving around pilgrims in the Holy Land:

[http://www.africaspeaks.com/reasoning/i ... 856.0;wap2]

Of course any player having sufficient strength in numbers of outposts, cash, men, etc, could supply protection to caravans much as the Templars did, though obviously a player would need dozens of outposts and scores of men to be able to be effective at it, and with each successful caravan their reputation would rise in that area making them more attractive to do business with and conversely each one lost would have the reverse effect, not to mention making them targets for bandits.

anyway, just a thought, it deftly handles both physical coinage and the ability to function without carrying 100s of pounds of coins back and forth. It also opens a whole new branch of technology to be researched [building a fortified banking structure, the practice of banking, and the issuing of notes (which are useless to anyone but the owner of the note)].

[CalPal]

... I like what Lupine is saying. I'd totally be on-board for an idea anywhere close to this.

Although if we're going to have notes being used, it would only make sense, then, that forgers would exist, and that could just as easily have a huge impact on the economic system, especially if you're a constant victim of said forgery.

[philthymcnasty]

The stealing of the weapons and armor will not be too bad once all the crafting is implemented. Furthermore, if you output high quality goods, you may find yourselves with new customers. What this would need however, is better Ai. What i mean, is that i want to see same lower ranking bandits fight over who gets what, and maybe kill each other just to get loot .That would make it fun to watch. The problem with this however, is that it breaks the game in terms of heavy weapons and armor. Dust bandits do not have the strength to be decked out with planks and heavy armor. They would move too slowly and probably do not have the skills necessary to use those weapons effectively. Stealing everything else however, i can see them do that.

Also incorporate the option to booby trap loot. Then you can do things like send your weakest guy into a bunch of starving bandits with say poisoned bread, have the bandits beat him up and steal it, then watch as they die from the poison. This should go into your clans reputation, letting the bandits know not to take food from you, and give the wastes a sense of terror and loathing towards your presence.

[SirChuckles]

The stealing of the weapons and armor will not be too bad once all the crafting is implemented. Furthermore, if you output high quality goods, you may find yourselves with new customers. What this would need however, is better Ai. What i mean, is that i want to see same lower ranking bandits fight over who gets what, and maybe kill each other just to get loot .That would make it fun to watch. The problem with this however, is that it breaks the game in terms of heavy weapons and armor. Dust bandits do not have the strength to be decked out with planks and heavy armor. They would move too slowly and probably do not have the skills necessary to use those weapons effectively. Stealing everything else however, i can see them do that.

Also incorporate the option to booby trap loot. Then you can do things like send your weakest guy into a bunch of starving bandits with say poisoned bread, have the bandits beat him up and steal it, then watch as they die from the poison. This should go into your clans reputation, letting the bandits know not to take food from you, and give the wastes a sense of terror and loathing towards your presence.

That last part in combination with the plans for slave labor make for deliciously evil plots in my head...

[philthymcnasty]

The stealing of the weapons and armor will not be too bad once all the crafting is implemented. Furthermore, if you output high quality goods, you may find yourselves with new customers. What this would need however, is better Ai. What i mean, is that i want to see same lower ranking bandits fight over who gets what, and maybe kill each other just to get loot .That would make it fun to watch. The problem with this however, is that it breaks the game in terms of heavy weapons and armor. Dust bandits do not have the strength to be decked out with planks and heavy armor. They would move too slowly and probably do not have the skills necessary to use those weapons effectively. Stealing everything else however, i can see them do that.

Also incorporate the option to booby trap loot. Then you can do things like send your weakest guy into a bunch of starving bandits with say poisoned bread, have the bandits beat him up and steal it, then watch as they die from the poison. This should go into your clans reputation, letting the bandits know not to take food from you, and give the wastes a sense of terror and loathing towards your presence.

That last part in combination with the plans for slave labor make for deliciously evil plots in my head...

Slave labor is doabla, after all, you would just need a big cage and carry knocked out people back to your base. Maybe incorporate suicide bomber vests, then your workforce can become siege bombs too. Isn't there going to be a slavers faction.....?

[Someguy]

Kinda instrumental for the new Holy Sword startup assuming that sword came from one of those factions you enjoy a -100 faction rating with. They seem to want their sword back...

The money thing isn't really my cup of tea as I view money as a line of credit rather than physical coinage. A debit card if you will, in this wonderful mix of anachronisms we call Kenshi. Moreover while the proposal being hammered out above is excellent top to bottom, it can't be the sum total of the ramifications of losing in the field, this game is so much more than that.

The problem with Joe bandit looting and running off with your stuff, is that Joe bandit eventually despawns... presumably with your stuff. Kind of a bad thing if your whole startup is based on a particularly nice and virtually unique piece of gear. Assuming other such and moreso legendary artifacts will be out there, something should be done to preserve the appearance of realism and the system's weight on the player at this point.

I liked the camp suggestion the OP offered but as stated it seems to have the world revolving around the player a bit more than I'd like. I'd like to believe that eventually every faction that exists will have a permanant home, maybe even build a new one if they lose the first, who knows.. but assuming that to be true, then tracking them home is a bit more organic.

My suggestion is to have the engine toggle any NPC platoon that has looted the player's gear as 'town type', meaning they have the same permanence as the player's platoon, no abstractions. It takes a damn lot to permanantly kill one of these characters currently if even possible and they appear to individually remember what they were carrying and their status.
The engine would have to require that the mob or it's corpse not despawn for a significant amount of time imo. There are times when you'd rip the the world asunder to recover a thing, and times when you say to heck with it, It's those times that we can't have cluttering up the world, so a temp timer on this toggle/flag, I'm thinking about a month or as soon as they no longer have the gear in question. (Indefinitely if a unique item)

Where this gets complicated is when potentially multiple player squads are mugged by several different platoons, and with the possibility that NPC platoons may eventually loot one another...

This strikes me as a potential serious system resource drain if taken to an extreme level. I suppose the latter could be managed by having the victorious platoon loot all or none of the player gear and transfer the flag or not, a bit less than 'Realism' (TM), but not too terribly immersion breaking I suspect. So if a player loot bearing guy dies out in the desert before encountering the platoon that wants to loot the rest of the player gear from the other guys they just beat, they cannot loot as the flag wouldn't be wholly transferable. The corpses then stay, waiting to be tracked down by the player for X time. This goes a bit far back towards world revolving around the player, but It's all that's coming to me for managing this potential problem.

Perhaps the whole notion should be applied only to unique items (assuming they will even exist) That after all is my only concern with a system allowing player looting. Making such a thing non-lootable is a non-option imo. Recovering the Holy Kazoo of Wazoo from that chance band of raiders is exactly the type of engine generated content that should exist.

[kain_lei]

I actually was considering the very problem you mentioned. My solution, however, was that the faction that the robbing party belonged to would gain the items. When the robbing party despawns, we assume that the player wasn't able to catch them, and that they got away. Therefore, the items that were stolen end up in a "loot box" in the faction's fortress. That way, the items are never lost, and it provides an incentive to combat hostile factions. Also, if/when sneaking is implemented, you could have subterfuge missions to get your stuff back and avoid conflict.

We'd need a bandit fortress, but that's not so hard to believe, is it?

[Someguy]

I actually was considering the very problem you mentioned. My solution, however, was that the faction that the robbing party belonged to would gain the items. When the robbing party despawns, we assume that the player wasn't able to catch them, and that they got away. Therefore, the items that were stolen end up in a "loot box" in the faction's fortress. That way, the items are never lost, and it provides an incentive to combat hostile factions. Also, if/when sneaking is implemented, you could have subterfuge missions to get your stuff back and avoid conflict.

We'd need a bandit fortress, but that's not so hard to believe, is it?

Perfect, and far more elegant. Thank you. There would have to be some clutter cleaning functionality at some point but it'd require far less than my overthought notion.

Edit:
One item that was dancing around my head as I was considering that proposal was the utility it would lend to a tracking skill. Something like Mount and Blade does. But system resources again...

[ZombieBear]

Something I would find interesting is from mount and blade.

Once the characters are knocked out, and there are no conscious team mates available, then the bandits will kidnap the people, and haul them around, until a ransom can be payed or the characters escape, with escape times based on combat times.

[philthymcnasty]

I actually was considering the very problem you mentioned. My solution, however, was that the faction that the robbing party belonged to would gain the items. When the robbing party despawns, we assume that the player wasn't able to catch them, and that they got away. Therefore, the items that were stolen end up in a "loot box" in the faction's fortress. That way, the items are never lost, and it provides an incentive to combat hostile factions. Also, if/when sneaking is implemented, you could have subterfuge missions to get your stuff back and avoid conflict.

We'd need a bandit fortress, but that's not so hard to believe, is it?

Perfect, and far more elegant. Thank you. There would have to be some clutter cleaning functionality at some point but it'd require far less than my overthought notion.

Edit:
One item that was dancing around my head as I was considering that proposal was the utility it would lend to a tracking skill. Something like Mount and Blade does. But system resources again...

This opens up dynamic quests as well. A holy sword gets stolen from one faction, or someone else gets kidnapped. So they go to hire a third party. This can help with diplomacy with your enemies, or just be a good source of money. This can add an extra purpose to your outposts, designate the trading building to have someone inside that accepts/declines offers from factions.

[zibathy]

Just so you know, Chris said he's going to have your characters be kidnap-able so they'd probably knock you out and steal an entire person to sell into slavery. Regardless on whether this thread is seen by him, at least some of your dreams will be realized

[Hatsune_Neko]

Ah, yes this was discussed a while back. Physical money would definitely be an issue.

make money sacks /bags/purses/ bank aualt tied to back, that can carry only so much
then they would only be able to get that much from your general fund. or spread total amount among your group then they could only take 10% of each squad mate that's unconscious. or dead.

[Express]

What if there was something such as a bank in towns that connected your money or something, so you wouldn't have to constantly run around towns and your base to gather money.
I like the idea of money being in your inventory, but not weighing much.

[islesofurth]

I dont think anyone mentioned it and id been thinking this from the first post.

How about having multiple AI personalities.
some AI will steal everything you have they can carry (bandits)
some will take tradable goods (nasty traders)
some will only upgrade their gear (mercs, soldiers)
some will revive you and help (nice traders, citizens, medics)
some will take you captive (bandits, mercs, soldiers)

having individual personalities like "nice or nasty" would also effect what the AI stole and from whom



In regards to the money being a physical part so it could be moved from person to person. wouldnt it just be easier to simply "tax" the owning players faction.
By taxing the owning players faction and giving it to the trigering players faction that would be the same as stealing or trading.

I do think that making money Physical would make it more realistic and that instead of it taking up room if it was physical a money pouch as an extra inventory addition would be better.
without a pouch you could hold whatever you could carry in your pockets per person. With a pouch you increase this amount and then you can also put money into chests, hehe im sure chris would like that

[hbrown]

I dont think anyone mentioned it and id been thinking this from the first post.

How about having multiple AI personalities.
some AI will steal everything you have they can carry (bandits)
some will take tradable goods (nasty traders)
some will only upgrade their gear (mercs, soldiers)
some will revive you and help (nice traders, citizens, medics)
some will take you captive (bandits, mercs, soldiers)

having individual personalities like "nice or nasty" would also effect what the AI stole and from whom

I think someone did mention something like that, just id not describe, is a good idea none the less.

In regards to the money being a physical part so it could be moved from person to person. wouldnt it just be easier to simply "tax" the owning players faction.
By taxing the owning players faction and giving it to the trigering players faction that would be the same as stealing or trading.

I do think that making money Physical would make it more realistic and that instead of it taking up room if it was physical a money pouch as an extra inventory addition would be better.
without a pouch you could hold whatever you could carry in your pockets per person. With a pouch you increase this amount and then you can also put money into chests, hehe im sure chris would like that

Sounsd a bit awkward being taken money from faction by a single member xD, but makes it an easy solution indeed. Tho i kinad go with the idea of the physical money, tho might be a pain in the ass for micromanaging, unless you smart with it and just assign to the right ones and know what you gona do, this could give a open to a sort of safe room/building, protect the money from sneaky ninjas and marauding bandits, or even go pirate and burry it , but i guess could be done wit hthe pouch seperated fom inventory like the bag is at the moment, with multiple pouch sizes, that would also make, to me is kidna interesting or may a "obstacle", misspel and a good one, not a bad one i mean, to make that, players which just wander around, need to keep good track of the money, to not have too much or too many, if they have too many, they need to either hide it, subjjecting to get back and fnd nothing, or even safe it withing, well, banks?
And "faction players", can easilly create places to kept it safe, if not still use other factions while they do nt have, but they with a big building will call more atention to bandits.

[Tolwrath]

A bank would get more attention from bandits, but so would the defences of the town it's hoised in. If it's fortified well enough, normal bandits would be too intimidated to even try to break in. Not to mention, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would use an empty bank to lure bandits into a trap so I can later sell them into slavery.

I like the personality bit, but it has to factor in faction relations too. Like a group that's normally nice might be less forgiving to a faction they hate.

[islesofurth]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would use an empty bank to lure bandits into a trap so I can later sell them into slavery.

If the bank was empty and had no reknown, wouldnt it only attract the odd stupid bandit who didnt plan his heist?
also if you kept the bank empty, im hoping we will get mechanics that things like this are generated as rumors.

I think banks would be a good addition, it would provide that extra security so you didnt haave all your money stolen. If investment was also an option (peope safe guarding money in otherpeoples banks), then perhaps the owner could some revenue either set amount or %. This in turn could provide some form of insurance for those who trust there money to the bank.


If we could generate our own rumours, that would certainly be cool. That way it wouldnt matter if the bank was empty, you could say it was overflowing. Provided your faction could spread the word faster and better than people who came accross your bank, bandits would swarm to your city and try to pillage from your "overflowing" bank.
but i dont see that happening unless they are preset rumors

[hbrown]

If the bank was empty and had no reknown, wouldnt it only attract the odd stupid bandit who didnt plan his heist?
also if you kept the bank empty, im hoping we will get mechanics that things like this are generated as rumors.

Even the most stupid bandits cna fit as slaves, if they do anything wrong, they cna turn into punchbags .

But yeah would be good to create our own rumors, but shouldn t be hard to do the list of the most common rumors to be, throw a coin to some old farmer to be spreading some "magic", then let it happen. Or even say there a convoy of goods going in X place at X time to lure some bandits and surprise the surprisers.