[SUGGESTION] Add Functionality to Attack Own Squad Members

[AviticusDragon]

As the title states, I would love to have the functionality to attack (and kill) our own squad members. I understand that Dojo's may be something that is coming, but we don't know how that will work. Perhaps this functionality can be added through attackable squads, so that if you add members to a special squad, they become attackable.

It would be really cool if we could attack our own squad members (with no gain in skill/stats outside of the dojo interaction) so that we could simulate roleplaying. How amazing would it be to have a companion stab you in the back while you're sleeping, or a mutiny of squad members steal your best loot, and escape with it all. Now you are forced to hunt down those you called 'friends'.

This of course would be simulated by the player in roleplay fashion, but I could do some amazing things with this functionality with my on-going Kenshi game series.

Imagine roleplaying a war between your own squad members. Now we're talking. Please add this somehow Chris! :/

[Chinsei]

Well, the main problem i think would come from not all people are into RPing, and if it had no practical reason to be there. people would probably end up wanting it to give xp . since it would be only logical you can't fight someone an not learn new things.

however i'm sure eventually there will be a mod for it .

though we aren't likely ever to be granted the ability to intentionally kill our own squad members since we aren't likely to have the ability to flatout kill NPC who are just unconcious.

[swillo]

The only way this would be possible would be to have two or more player controlled factions.
Otherwise you would have to set your faction hostile to itself, and then ALL the members of the faction would attack ALL the other members of the faction.
If you could split player characters into factions, perhaps by squads. But that would really be a ton of programing. You would have to prevent swapping characters between squads of different factions.

I have always liked the idea of a sparing option, with specialize sparing weapons, but that is still problematic.

[Roccandil]

Sparring/training would be great. Having to capture something and imprison it to do much the same thing is a bit clunky.

(Plus, "all new recruits gotta survive several rounds with a Gorillo" is a bit macabre. )

[lucidmadness]

Come to the Death ring! Place your bets now!

[AviticusDragon]

The only way this would be possible would be to have two or more player controlled factions.
Otherwise you would have to set your faction hostile to itself, and then ALL the members of the faction would attack ALL the other members of the faction.
If you could split player characters into factions, perhaps by squads. But that would really be a ton of programing. You would have to prevent swapping characters between squads of different factions.

I have always liked the idea of a sparing option, with specialize sparing weapons, but that is still problematic.

Thanks for the input, but as I said with the title, I would like the functionality added. Meaning, mods could make use of the functionality so that I can mod it in, or someone else can. If there's room for it in the main game, great, but we really need the functionality in there to allow this as it's not currently possible. I'm just simply suggesting what I think could be awesome. Whether it aligns with the development plans, I don't know

[Hatsune_Neko]

the killing part we already know won't be added.
but splitting into two factions part most likely will be the same. if it was, it would be after the game releases.
but adding in the dojo would be easier for the Dev and is already planned. so kinda defeats the purpose of this request. so you are getting what you want.. sorta.

[AviticusDragon]

We don't know how the dojos will work, but that's why I'm mentioning this now so that if the functionality isn't too hard to add into the forgotten construction set then maybe they will do it in case someone wants to utilize it.

A lot of people may not roleplay but there are plenty who do, and sandbox games are keen for it.

Imagine for a second that you start the game by yourself but you meet someone at a bar who is a loner like you. You band together, fight together and roam throughout the world together. Then one day, your 'friend' backstabs you, attacks you leaving you for dead while taking all of your possessions. Now you swear vengeance upon them.

With this functionality, I could play both sides, the villain and the hero. The hero survives, creates a clan, and trains for the day that he can one day get vengeance. Meanwhile the villain builds an army, and a base heavily defended.

The hero and his group many months later assaults the base, (with the 256 limit mod) imagine 100 vs 100, all battling. There in the middle you see the hero and villain head to head.

I mean that's just a small fraction of what could be done with this functionality. Sure it would probably be best a mod since I'm pretty much the only one who knows what he wants it for but if the devs realize they could add it in easy enough then maybe they will.

[Hatsune_Neko]

that's kinda like playing chess with yourself
you are always gonna win.

It would turn Kenshi into that one stick figure combat simulator game that i can't remember the name of.

[AviticusDragon]

that's kinda like playing chess with yourself
you are always gonna win.

It would turn Kenshi into that one stick figure combat simulator game that i can't remember the name of.

I didn't expect you to understand, you're not a content creator. I wouldn't expect anything less of you though since you've been putting everyone's ideas down for years as if you know what the developers are thinking or what's best for the game.

[Hatsune_Neko]

actually i do make content
HaTsune NeKo's workshop content
plus my youtube series
i have several Mods to the game and working on a 7th. i was also the first to do fan stories for the game under my Females of Kenshi [Androktones Faction] faction and her solo play style.

and like everyone else if i don't like something or someone's idea ill debate them on it and let them know why i don't. that's the purpose of these forums. since i have about as much impact on game ideas as you do. we have our voice and if the Dev decides to add it, all the better. if he doesn't all the better as well.

granted i got my view of the game and it might be different than yours but that's not a crime to express my view of others ideas. if you don't like how i see it, debate me on it, don't try and put me down because you think i have a history that i put everyone's ideas down.

ideas are great. putting them into the game, not as easy as saying i want this. so i push people to go into more detail about their idea, maybe their idea will turn out good if they delve deeper into it. or maybe it won't. i can not say in the end.

[swillo]

I didn't expect you to understand, you're not a content creator. I wouldn't expect anything less of you though since you've been putting everyone's ideas down for years as if you know what the developers are thinking or what's best for the game.

Hatsune is right and these kind of posts are out of line. It just proves that you don't have any good counter points to her arguments and so have to resort to personal attacks. You lose.

She is a valued member of this community who had helped hundreds of players over the years. What have you done?

I don't care what your suggestion is, if this it the only way you can discuss it I vote NO.

Keep up the good work Hatsune!

[AviticusDragon]

Wow I actually forgot about this post. Been too busy lately.

We are all passionate about Kenshi and sometimes that passion gets the better of us. We say things that we don't mean or not the way we intended. I just want to apologize to Hatsune for anything I might have said which may have been offensive.

granted i got my view of the game and it might be different than yours but that's not a crime to express my view of others ideas. if you don't like how i see it, debate me on it, don't try and put me down because you think i have a history that i put everyone's ideas down.

ideas are great. putting them into the game, not as easy as saying i want this. so i push people to go into more detail about their idea, maybe their idea will turn out good if they delve deeper into it. or maybe it won't. i can not say in the end.

Attacking our own squad members outside of the Dojo aspect, will not benefit "the game" in any shape or form. It will simply allow me, or any filmmaker the ability to create betrayal stories, or stories of war where there is a protagonist and antagonist that we "the filmmaker" can control.

You can't make a good film in Kenshi because you can't control the AI. The AI is unpredictable. It patrols, fights, and that's about it. How can you show a film of an evil antagonist, if you can't control them? So what I would do is dress someone up as an enemy commander, and film him as the enemy, even though he is in my squad. So essentially using my own squad members to be the antagonists and protagonists dressing each characters up at will for what side they are on, etc. Imagine the squad members as actors in a film, consisting of good guys and bad guys.

Having the ability to attack our squad members allows me to film large wars between those antagonists and protagonist squad members. It would allow me to simulate sieges, retreats, battles in the world, simulate characters talking to one another (which we can do already) and various other communicative things that films need to be good. It would allow me to tell a story in the Kenshi universe, that goes beyond an unimaginative film fighting random holy nation/united cities troops (because that's all you're going to get).

I don't even need the ability to kill people, just knocking them out would suffice.

So anyway, this idea doesn't benefit anyone but me or someone who is thinking of making films in the Kenshi universe using the same techniques. This is essentially the same way Skyrim Machinima is made.

But if the Dojo gets released, and that provides some way to fight our own squad members, then I suppose I could simulate one of them to be the antagonist. Just wouldn't be as epic if you could only fight within one type of building or one person at a time, etc. No sieges or any open world fighting would be possible.

She is a valued member of this community who had helped hundreds of players over the years. What have you done?

Yes Hatsune and Shidan have definitely helped the community and have helped people on the forums tremendously. I can honestly say that I have influenced a large majority of people to purchase the game based on my various Kenshi series that I have released over the last 4 years which have been viewed over 700,000 times.

So we're all doing the things we're good at whether it's making mods, producing videos, or helping the community get into this amazing game.

[Hatsune_Neko]

thank you and accepted

now onto the continuation of the request

it's a good idea but i think the best chance of this getting added would be in Kenshi 2. and if it had MP capability. then you could have someone else in your game doing what you are looking to do. that way you could form alliances with each other and then do the game play of the break up and the eventual RP you want to do.

so i think programing wise that would be the best option since the game is nearing the finish line.

[Remairem]

In a similar vein what about slaughtering ones own pack animals?

When I made my outpost migration I purchased like 8 or 9 bulls to make the journey with as much as they could carry. When I was working on getting food situation settled lots of people started to starve, the bulls as well. I very much wanted a means by which I could slaughter and eat ( because of the dire situation ) my not so beloved pack animals. same for any purchased animal really. This being a survival game means I should be able to slaughter the animals.

I ended up creating a new squad and just sending them into cannibal territory to be slowly killed. They eat them once their dead, but it took a very long time for the bulls to actually die. I did this so they would not consume food I wanted for my actual squad members.

Same should be said for your fellow survivors/squad members. If the going gets tough the strong eat the weak. ( with this train of though squad combat has a place, though how best to implement it, I am unsure. )

[Remairem]

In a similar vein what about slaughtering ones own pack animals?

When I made my outpost migration I purchased like 8 or 9 bulls to make the journey with as much as they could carry. When I was working on getting food situation settled lots of people started to starve, the bulls as well. I very much wanted a means by which I could slaughter and eat ( because of the dire situation ) my not so beloved pack animals. same for any purchased animal really. This being a survival game means I should be able to slaughter the animals.

I ended up creating a new squad and just sending them into cannibal territory to be slowly killed. They eat them once their dead, but it took a very long time for the bulls to actually die. I did this so they would not consume food I wanted for my actual squad members.

Same should be said for your fellow survivors/squad members. If the going gets tough the strong eat the weak. ( with this train of though squad combat has a place, though how best to implement it, I am unsure. )

I was thinking and I would like to expound upon this.

Obviously something is going to have to flag the squad member as hostile before any other mechanic can work, but If this does take place and you decide to move towards cannibalism, i.e. Killing a squad mate for whatever reason(food). I like the ability to remove some sort of raw flesh meat that can be cooked conjointly the skin could be used in specific recipes. Such as a mask ( look like a cannibal / could be used as faction disguise ) or humanoid skin duster etc. Has instant hostile modifier for non cannibal, etc.

Just thoughts.

[Sol Lignum]

I've hesitated between ignoring this alltogether, and putting my thoughts in... here it goes.

It has rather quickly degraded from ability to attack own squadmembers for RP purposes all the way down to cannibalism for survival reasons.

First of all,

(...) I ended up creating a new squad and just sending them into cannibal territory to be slowly killed. (...)

what stopped you from dismissing animals from squad, and slaughtering them afterwards? It's totally an option, i just checked it.

Secondly, putting such a vile option into player's hands is a bit too much, don't you think? Especially given that Kenshi IS NOT a survival game.

I often see people saying "Kenshi is this" and "Kenshi is that" and "those features are must for the genre" and so on. The thing is, often, Kenshi is neither. And everything at the same time. Being a HYBRID, it takes various little bits from various diffirent genres. It's a strategy in a way of controlling your squad, it's an rgp in a way of squadmates progression and dialogue system, it's a city builder here and diplomacy simulator there, and so forth. Jack of all trades.

From survival it took hunger, which is neat. It has FARMING with viable crop options for almost every region, so you could GROW your own FOOD. And it has WILDLIFE with nests that spawns INFINITELY, so you could HUNT for your own FOOD. Not to mention convenience stores in every major town, so you could buy your own food. Why on earth would you want to go down to cannibalism under such supportive and varied circumstances?

[Remairem]

I looked for the right click options for pack animals. I can't recall dismiss being one but I will look into that, thanks!!

Cannibalism wise,

This thread is a suggestion thread, it's not an expectation thread or a must have thread. Its a, We think this could add value thread.

So while heading in that direction we could see an interesting dynamic appear, that being player cannibalism. Cannibalism is in already in the game, it's actual embodied by a rather large faction. I don't need this in my game to make me feel complete. In fact if this never made it into the game I doubt that I would care. I will even go so far as to say responding to this thread this many times might be more energy than I had planned on spending on this topic. That being said, it seems like an interesting mechanic that has already been introduced to the player. I don't see it as a massive stretch to apply code down the road that implements a semblance of a system that allows a player to go cannibal. I personally feel games that go that extra mile show their worth when they do so. Is it necessary, not in the least, would it add a very interesting flavor that I think many players would find interesting, absolutely. I will even add that I analytics were done after launch we would see players specifically working to not partake in cannibalism and continue to actively work against that faction. This is human nature. Details, Details and an all encompassing world help make the difference between a good game and a great game.

These are of course just thoughts and as I have stated before the game would not be lacking without, just more fulfilling with.

Though I am curious if I remember correctly and I could be wrong because I am far to lazy to check, but some of the trailers that were created definitely had a survival feel to them. It may not be touted as a survival game but i think anyone who plays Vanilla Kenshi feels like it is a survival game.

[Sol Lignum]

Well, that was just my thoughts in return, as well. I don't see how it would add to the game, and felt like expressing myself on the matter.

I was more curious about reason behind your suggestion, that is to say, i was attacking the argument, not you, personally. Otherwise i'd go with "YA SICK BASTAAA-" instead of detailed explanation of my view

With that said, if replying is undesirable, i apologise for causing an urge to it, i meant no offence whatsoever.

The option to dismiss is accessible through SQD menu: you pick the squaddie icon, be it human or animal, drag it towards lower right corner of the window, where narrow "DISMISS" panel is, and then, once the hovered icon outline colour changes from red to green, drop it, go through confirmation window, and your squaddie will turn neutral, probably returning to it's basic AI, although it's another, dimly relevant topic.

As for the topic subject itself, since i never commented on it, of course, i can't wait to see the sparring system implemented.

I wonder how it will coexist with dummies, and the overall balance. I imagine it'd be something like this: you can spar with whoever you want, although the higher the skills of the opponent, the faster you'll learn, just like the actual ingame fighting, with limit being the highest skill in the pair, so, theoretically, best you could do with just sparring in a reasonable amount of time is to equalise the squad to the highest person, not just train everyone balls to the wall.

So that's my reason for attacking own squaddies: just a little more training beyond dummies.