[0.93.12] Group combat and taunt exploit.

[AlexJB]

If you use taunt and block together you can break apart large groups of enemies. I have two of my guys both using taunt and block, the other four are free to tear them apart.

First you use taunt to gather a large group and and then use defend. I'm not sure if this is intended by the devs or not but it's seems a bit like cheating.

[Jake_j_a]

I'm not sure, for the most part my enemies turn away from guys on block if someone else is attacking them, even using taunt. Sure it allows you to win some fights you might not or take less damage then you otherwise would, but I have not seen it work to the degree to be "broken" or an "exploit." Though it could use some tweaking in some cases I think the general concept works well, perhaps the NPC's should have an 'intelligence' stat that determines how badly they fall for the tactic.

[Hatsune_Neko]

that would be working as intended. Taunt is supposed to do just that so you can divide an enemy group and keep them focused on the ones using taunt.

[Berzerker Jay]

And it all has to do with aggro, by my understanding. So while Taunt escalates the aggro towards that character, block means they're not increasing that aggro by hitting the target. Those characters hitting the target may end up taking that aggro.

I admit I haven't tested this enough to know how consistently this might play out this way.

[AlexJB]

Using taunt and block together, one guy can pull 8 or more enemies from the main group and hold them up almost indefinitely, you can even use the shift move command to move them away from your other fighters, It's a little over powered.

If you read the block description it's intended to protect weak characters, I don't think you should be able to use taunt and block together.

[Berzerker Jay]

In your opinion it's overpowered, but it's definitely balanced in that you can't attack and will therefore be subject to frequent opportunities to take you down. When you get hit, you stagger and you become less effective at fighting. If you're fighting foes that are really so much less powerful than you that you can stand up to a whole group of them unscathed, then you're not really going to see much benefit from that.

I don't really see how it's overpowered. Also without Taunt, how is Block supposed to be used to protect other characters? The combination of these two combat behaviours is what makes it possible for a character to tank, so to make it so they can't be used together because it effectively allows for that to happen seems a little hard to agree with.

Is there a way you see that the system could be improved on? Because I don't think it should be removed. Definitely not.

[AlexJB]

"In your opinion it's overpowered, but it's definitely balanced in that you can't attack and will therefore be subject to frequent opportunities to take you down. When you get hit, you stagger and you become less effective at fighting."

I think it's imbalanced because of the amount of enemies one character can distract and hold up.

"If you're fighting foes that are really so much less powerful than you that you can stand up to a whole group of them unscathed, then you're not really going to see much benefit from that."

If I'm fighting enemies that weak I don't even use the two abilities together.

"I don't really see how it's overpowered. Also without Taunt, how is Block supposed to be used to protect other characters? The combination of these two combat behaviours is what makes it possible for a character to tank, so to make it so they can't be used together because it effectively allows for that to happen seems a little hard to agree with."

It's the amount of enemies one character can distract and hold up.

"Is there a way you see that the system could be improved on? Because I don't think it should be removed. Definitely not."

I'm not saying to remove either abilities but maybe to limit how many enemies you can taunt.

[Jake_j_a]

I've played with this some, the OP is quite correct, IF you specifically try to use the 'exploit' it is definitely over-powered. One character, properly equipped and with a good block skill, can effectively lock down an entire mob, allowing your other characters to take them out one at a time. It requires quite a bit of micro management, and if one of the enemies gets a good stagger hit in early (before switching to block) it can potentially backfire.

First you use taunt to gather a large group and and then use defend. I'm not sure if this is intended by the devs or not but it's seems a bit like cheating.

Never noticed it before because you have to specifically and intentionally use the exploit, keeping your other characters out of combat until you've got the whole mob attacking the one, just fighting and having one or two characters go taunt-block it works, I believe, as intended. Perhaps an agro timeout, or perhaps increase priority of 'protect allies' would fix this, but I'm afraid any fix might break the taunt-block when used without using the exploit...

[AlexJB]

I don't bother too much with micro now, I just look at which of my characters is in the middle of the enemy and switch on block and taunt, they seem to draw them away nicely.

The other thing is only so many can attack my character with block and taunt, the rest wait there turn neither giving or receiving damage. This is really evident when the character has drawn them away from my other fighters.