My Own Game!

[iSuck345]

I am looking foward to it, that is all I have left to say.

[Mask]

Been a while since I checked on the project. How are things, toxiciron?

[toxiciron]

Well, to be honest, I haven't been quite so self disciplined. But I can't forget this project, it's been at the forefront of my mind for the past year or two. I talk about it with my roommates almost every day but I just can't build up the confidence to delve into it. Most of my most recent work has simply been on trying to figure out how all the equations and variables will change over time. It gets really complicated because many variables are interdependent, meaning if A goes down, B goes down, but B going down makes A go down. And A influences B faster than B influences A. But B will naturally drain faster than A over time. So I spend a lot of time trying to just think of what the crap I'm trying to do...

[Mask]

I advise finding a mathematician and asking them.

[toxiciron]

Perhaps, but my roommates are all idiots. No offense to them . I'll probably have a hard time really finding someone, without paying them, that gives a shit. On my days off with no people around to bug me, I'll have to dive in and throw everything up so I can smack it down. Slang'd

[Mask]

Try asking around game communities. You can sometimes get some surprisingly skilled experts who are interested in helping game projects. A game-related college is the best place to ask around, I'd say--but I'm not sure how to contact people from one without being part of one.

You could also look for places mathematicians hang out. There might be a few on XKCD related forums, for example.

[Blxz]

As an idea, perhaps you could link 'A' and 'B' could be linked to an invisible 'C' equation. That way the interconnectedness is still there but you are more easily able to avoid a feedback loop.

I realise this is very general information but maybe thinking about things from different angles is the way to solve it. Roundabout methods might help you out a bit.

[toxiciron]

I see what you mean with the A B and C thingy, I actually tried that when I was first developing, but as more variables were added in, it was more like the entire alphabet was dependent on all other letters I appreciate that you guys are trying to help though... it seems I delved into something that a lot more people would like than I thought! Perhaps I could focus more, right now, on just adding in features affected by stats, and not the stats that the features will be built on... It would be very nonfunctional and very developer-y, but it would be a cool proof of concept. And stuff like building and inventory. That seems more like a nightmare than a fruitful outing to me though. But I know that it would eventually be fruitful... WHY DO I KEEP THINKING OUT LOUD... BUT IN TEXT...

[Mask]

Voicing your thoughts helps you to think and solve problems.

We are indeed very interested in your project. You decided to take on a tough, and very interesting task, which will be a benchmark in gaming.

When you are happy enough with it to present it, please let me know immediately. The team making Hearts of Oak would likely be interested in such a model.


If I could have your permission, I'll take a look around places I know of where I might find a mathematician.

[toxiciron]

Voicing your thoughts helps you to think and solve problems.

We are indeed very interested in your project. You decided to take on a tough, and very interesting task, which will be a benchmark in gaming.

When you are happy enough with it to present it, please let me know immediately. The team making Hearts of Oak would likely be interested in such a model.


If I could have your permission, I'll take a look around places I know of where I might find a mathematician.

It's the game I've always wanted to play! I mainly took inspiration from a dislike of CoD's system combined with an interest in Dwarf Fortress' system.
What exactly do you mean by present it? Like... release a downloadable version? Or release the mathematics behind it all? I looked up Hearts of Oak, that looks pretty sweet. Are you working on it?
And if you wanna find some mathematicians, go right ahead! That would be awesome!

[Mask]

Agreed, games like CoD where you take shots then hide for ten seconds while your mutant healing factor kicks in... they annoy me greatly. Dwarf Fortress is awesome. Wish there was a better interface.

Like a downloadable version or a demo video of a working version, that kind of thing. And yes, I'm Creative Support for Hearts of Oak. There isn't much to do aside from brainstorming at the moment, so I have nothing else to do yet.

OK, will have a look around for mathematicians, and see if I can find any.


Sorry for the late reply. Had some work to do. Looking forward to your project, so let me know whenever there's a big update.

EDIT: Just remembered. Heard of a game called Day Z? They went to a lot of trouble simulating hunger, heat and cold, bleeding, etc.. I don't know if their model is realistic, haven't played the game enough or put it through tests.

[toxiciron]

Agreed, games like CoD where you take shots then hide for ten seconds while your mutant healing factor kicks in... they annoy me greatly. Dwarf Fortress is awesome. Wish there was a better interface.

Like a downloadable version or a demo video of a working version, that kind of thing. And yes, I'm Creative Support for Hearts of Oak. There isn't much to do aside from brainstorming at the moment, so I have nothing else to do yet.

OK, will have a look around for mathematicians, and see if I can find any.


Sorry for the late reply. Had some work to do. Looking forward to your project, so let me know whenever there's a big update.

EDIT: Just remembered. Heard of a game called Day Z? They went to a lot of trouble simulating hunger, heat and cold, bleeding, etc.. I don't know if their model is realistic, haven't played the game enough or put it through tests.

I will probably go on a working spurt here pretty soon. Haven't done it in a while...

Ah, yes, I actually own ARMA II, before Day Z, too. But I've never gotten around to installing Day Z. Their simulations, from what I've seen, is about on par with the more hardcore games out there today. My aim is to make one that is so hardcore, it's on par with reality. Of course, It's impossible for me to get there, and I already worry at this point that all the running scripts will drag the CPU (and GPU with visual effects) but CryEngine is mainly used to make intensive games anyways. And CPUs aren't so much a problem as they used to be... I think. I'm thinking of staggering script updates between frames or ticks, I'll have to look at how to do that.
Well I'll let you know when I have a demo or something. Probably along with this forum too... And the CryDev forum...

[Mask]

Please read this as soon as you can.

Got a reply. They suggested reading this, have a look-see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_equation

Does that help you? If not, their other suggestion is to show them the variables and calculations you're trying to perform so they can give advice.

Here is the thread: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... c6450aab77


Reply to your post: DayZ is pretty time-consuming. It's also boring for long stretches of time, if you're unlucky (especially without friends to play it with), and can be very frustrating. So I see why you haven't had time.

I am happy with your aims. It may not be possible to use your system in a game like Hearts of Oak, but after you complete your objective, you could always start a project to make it less CPU-intensive or to faithfully simplify it.

Looking forward to a demo. Anyway, let me know about the maths parts above as soon as you can, so that I can reply to the forum.

[toxiciron]

Ah, darn calculus. I'll have to dig up how those work. I thought about using them, but I forgot how to, so I wanted to search for other methods. But yes, differentials would work for things like that.
Here is an example of something I think about sometimes:
EDIT: Herp Derp. http://bwsimulator.niddk.nih.gov/Hall_L ... pendix.pdf
Page 3, figure 9. I just can't seem to figure out how to implement that equation into the game. That equation right there describes weight loss and gain vs eating and exercise. That whole equation. Just for that. It's crazy... I can't think of anything good right now, but there are also some equations for a nutritional need based on body weight. So, obviously, I'd calculate body weight from the referenced paper, then I'd calculate nutritional needs based on that body weight. Nutritional needs can have an impact on body weight, though, for example. This equation is already differentiated, but it would need another differential modifier to fit the nutritional needs model as well... see what I mean? Very confusing math stuff. I just hope I can get a day off soon so I can get cranking.
Anyways, I really appreciate you going off and helping me out. Perhaps I'll jump into that forum and talk to these people directly on that day off.
I plan to, once I've finished the core of this game, work on other game-like projects that use the same exact health system. Like a medieval FPS set in a historical fiction. Something that can borrow from Skyrim and Mount and Blade... and anything else. I want to avoid making my current game set during any specific time period, similar to Minecraft with mods like Buildcraft or Industrialcraft. Nor any specific setting, like Stranded II... I'm tired of being constrained to little islands. [/wall of text]

[Mask]

Glad you want to incorporate a realistic health/body system into many types of games. When your project gets to a stable level, you might want to recruit more specialists to help you make it as good as it can be. For now, I've posted your example in the thread, with some difficulty.

Looking forward to helping with the project.

[Blxz]

You might be overdoing it though. A simple 'calorie counter' would be all you need in regards to body weight. Just have a set amount of energy neede per day, a set calorie count for the foods and if you fall under the limit a number of times in a row (say for a few days) then start to give whatever health debuff you want.

Unless you plan to have a model for every single body situation (ie, 70kg male, 69kg male, 68kg male, etc.) then you can handle this all in a more abstract manner. Doing more is needlessly complicating something that will not have any additional effect in game.

[Mask]

More weight, assuming it wasn't fat, would be helpful for activities like lifting things, carrying heavy backpacks, etc..


Iron, check out the thread. Someone has given a suggestion for how to handle the formula:

Well, assuming you don't need that specific equation, we can make it much simpler.

Here is a fairly simple solution to this problem:

W=W1+a(c-c1t)-b*e

Where W1 is the starting weight, a and b are constants, c is the amount of calories consumed total, ci is the calories lost per day not due to exercise, and e is the amount of time spent exercising total. This assumes a lot of things, like a linear relationship between weight gain and excess calories consumed (which is reasonable), a linear relationship between exercise and calorie loss (also reasonable) and a constant amount of energy spent without exercising, that does not depend on weight (perhaps not reasonable). If you want a slightly more complicated and/or accurate formula, try thinking about how c1 would increase or decrease when weight increases or decreases. In other words, set c1=f(W) for some f(W) that seems reasonable, put it in the formula for W, then solve for W.

[toxiciron]

Awesome, an answer! Sadly, I do want to use that model exactly as is... but don't worry, on Thursday and Friday, I will have time off, and I can get myself reengaged. Those were some pretty good suggestions, but I would rather go for full-on simulation rather than ease-of-use.
Which is a segway to answer Blxz. The primary goal of the project is to provide a complete and accurate representation of the way a human body works... or doesn't. More intended as a simulation first, and then a game. Every person needs a different amount of calories, and, as modelled in that equation, depends on total body weight, as well as a ratio of lean mass to fat (m)ass.
So, during character creation, you could choose a skinny little dude, a big fat dude, or a huge hulk dude, depending on sliders/typed in values. Each has their own benefits and drawback. The skinny dude has hardly any calorie requirement, and physical activities involving his own body weight (running, jumping, climbing) are easy/physically cheap. But other physical activities are quickly fatiguing to his muscles and leads him to get winded much faster. When he runs low on food, it's much more gentle to his well being. The fat dude has a bigger calorie requirement, as fat mass is easier to maintain. Most physical activity is tiring, but if he has a food shortage, he can last for about a month without food. The big buff guy has a huge calorie requirement, so he has to eat all the time if he wants to maintain his physique. But most physical activities don't have a big effect on him at all. If he runs out of food, he lasts longer than the skinny guy, but his body will be in a big shock as it is expecting a much larger proportion of food intake. His mass will drop like a rock and he's gonna be in agony over hunger much faster than the other two. I've heard people that swim across the English channel can lose up to 16 lbs (~8kg) just in doing the exercise.
Argh, again with my walls of text...

[wolfwood296]

holy crap!!!!! (sorry if that offends but this pretty much explains how surprised I am)

the demo just looks like amazing, I first thought it was Skyrim but if defiantly isn't.

this game will be the most realistic I thing anyone could think of or even make right now. (now all you need is something like the Kinect but a thousands times better)

I think all you need is just someone's weight and then their fat and muscle %. the dude who weights 300lbs and has 70% body fat probably couldn't do nearly as much as the 160lbs dude who is only 40& fat. but the dude with more body fat would be able to survive without food longer without major side effects.

hope you keep with this project.

[iSuck345]

Voicing your thoughts helps you to think and solve problems.

We are indeed very interested in your project. You decided to take on a tough, and very interesting task, which will be a benchmark in gaming.

When you are happy enough with it to present it, please let me know immediately. The team making Hearts of Oak would likely be interested in such a model.


If I could have your permission, I'll take a look around places I know of where I might find a mathematician.

Example: I whisper my thoughts, and that's thanks to my Asperger Syndrome, and trust me, it's quite effective.