Grappling/Wrestling

[Mask]

Would like to suggest the implementation of a incredibly basic grappling system.

To be short an sweet: When you attack unarmed or with short weapons, you are likely to initiate a grapple. With a grapple, X things can happen.

1. The grapple attempt can fail. Basically, it misses--and maybe the guy who you tried it on strikes at you.

2. You throw them to the ground. If the Devs were already thinking of having guys knocked prone, this wouldn't require extra coding.

3. You strike them and continue to grapple. This would be easiest with short weapons.

4. Neither of you succeed at striking or throwing each other, and keep grappling. While grappling, neither of you can move from the spot till you break free. You might also get a defence bonus against other enemies, since they're being careful not to hit their pal.

5. One of you slips free, or you both disengage. If you tell your character to move somewhere, they try to disengage, same for the enemy.



By using simple animations, this rarely seen feature could be added to make the combat deeper and more immersive. Since the Devs are capable of making Kenshi's combat so unique and detailed, I feel this would be possible without further straining resources and time - making Kenshi stand out even more with its enthralling detail.

[Santaissick]

I agree that I would like to see more stuff in fights. There is now like 5 different slashes and 3 blocks and I think it isn't enough. Fighting really looks great in it's present form but after few hours of playing it gets boring 'cause lack of things. You can almost guess which hit comes next.

More animations might make it more interesting. Maybe killing animations, like in total war series. I actually bought gore pack for shogun 2 and it didn't only bring more blood but also new ways of hitting/blocking and some cool moves (kick, dodge, roll over, counter...) and dying.

It really looks great and that is something I wish from Kenshi. The fact, that falling warriors in Kenshi don't normally die straight but pass out or smthg, might limit the animations. It concerns me but I hope Chris or his beard will solve the problem. (What are you thinking by the way? Is fighting animations etc. ready or will there be more?)

Maybe the martial arts skill could include (if it isn't just fighting bare handed) something like Mask suggested. It might include other "special moves" too which are performed during normal fighting with weapons (disarming, tricks like rolling, jump and hit, charge). It would make the need to practise martial arts bigger, because if they only affect fighting without weapons I would never use it. It is always better to have sword than no sword.

[Mask]

It is always better to have sword than no sword.

If nothing else, you could throw it at them !

More animations would be good. Would like it if they used those animations to add more mechanics to the gameplay - such as grappling - so the combat both looks better and is deeper.

[Santaissick]

If nothing else, you could throw it at them

????!!!.
.
.
.
.

"- Fuck!
- My sword is broken!!
- Well, lucky I can throw what is left from it.

*Fiuuu... stoink-splat* - ARGGHHH!!

- Huh? Head shot!! Only one left.

- Martial arts-mode, ACTIVATE!!
.
.
-¨mum...¨
.
*Hujooo, swank. Swiuh - wush rkransk. Whudu pump* - *drip drip* *put - - -thumps.....*

- Ugh, messy.

*step, step, step, step* (Walking towards sunset) "


Me like idea

[Buccee]

I like the idea but i think you should only able to grap foe's who are in frail health or wounded or something like that.

Nobody can grap a fit enemy who swinging a katana like a beserk ^^

[Mask]

Under normal circumstances, they would need to be in poor health. Of course, if you're more skilled than them, or if your character is set up for grappling (you wield a short weapon like a dagger, have good Martial Arts stat, etc.), then it'd be more likely to happen.

Come to think of it... there should probably be an option added to the Squad Tactics. Underneath AGG, DEF and EVA, you could have GRB or GRP. It would, of course, encourage your character(s) to try and initiate grapples.

[Santaissick]

Grappling is also more plausible when fighting enemy who has heavy/big weapons. They are slow and powerful swing with fragment axe etc. Would stagger the attacker for a moment and that would be great timing to advance in to grab or disarming.

[Buccee]

Hmm... yeah true u can try to grap everyone and everything.
But while the Grappling move your def. reach zero. If you missgrap your opponent has the chance to counter you badly maybe disarming you or countergrap something like this

[Mask]

I wouldn't say zero, but it would expose you to a pretty bad counter. That's why grapple attempts would generally happen when the opponent has messed up badly, and is less likely to be able to counter.

[Buccee]

Yeah zero is a bit harsh... but you know what i mean ^^

[Mask]

Yeah zero is a bit harsh... but you know what i mean ^^

Yup, I got the idea .

One thing I particular would like to see with this system, is it being used against spearmen. Spears are really annoying to engage at a distance, but it's actually pretty hard to get close (they thrust quickly). When you do manage to get close, however, a sword is much more useful (the spearman can try to club you quarterstaff style, of course).

[Santaissick]

I would love to see spears!! Asian spears would fit in theme very nicely.



It hasn't been said anywhere, that I know at least, that there wouldn't be any spears. But I still fear there won't be any. I think it's like with wildlife fighting(wolves, bears, laser chickens)... Adding them would mean making whole fighting system again from scrap or something. And again, Chris has said many times that game is mostly based on sword fights so adding too many different kind of weapons would ruin that. Shame though...

[Mask]

If they aren't added, hopefully it'll be possible to mod them in. Or, better yet, an expansion pack.

[HamSpanker]

Yes, I would love a grapple system! It would add depth and also more realism!
You can imagine a guy coming towards you and you side-step and grab his arm. Now based on your "GRB" stat and martial arts and strength stat, you will either throw him on the ground, hit him or perhaps even break his arm!!!!!1
This adds a whole new thing to the combat, such as breaking limps! You can perhaps throw a target on the ground, break his leg or arm OR MAYBE EVEN CHOKE HIM!
You could make a meter above the blood one where it says "air".
If you get hit in the lungs or get hit with alot of blows in stomach your soldier loses "air" and will become slower because he is out of breath. If you get a guy on ground and you start choking him he will slowly lose "air" until he passes out / dies. And breaking arms, legs even necks and backs can make the medic system way more fleshed out, with simple surgery trying to straighten the arm or leg back out!

It would give a whole new dimension and flavour to the game!

[Mask]

Come to think of it, you could have a Stamina/Energy stat, which I thin they're already thinking of adding. If they wanted to add chokes (would require an extra animation, so I understand if they decide not to), it would give you an increasing stamina penalty. The penalty would wear off, after a while spent out of the strangulation.

Of course, the main focus will be knocking your opponent over, and attacking them while in a grapple. Especially if you have a dagger or the like.

[cyanide_addict]

i like the idea of an assasin walking toward his victim in the middle of a crowd,grab him,stab him in the stomach a few times and then walk away casualy.

[Mask]

What you described is 1) Disturbingly accurate to real life. and 2) WE MUST HAVE!!!

Grappling would be great for assassination. If they don't see it coming, they won't get a chance to counter unless they're an incredibly good fighter. Once you have them grappled, they can't run away or run for help.

Would love to be able to do that!

[Tolwrath]

You're forgetting what would surely be a widely favored grapple: the tackle. Running at your opponent, and taking them down to the ground. Once you're on top of them on the ground, the only weapons that would remain effective would have to be short, about a max of 6 inches. The downside to the tackle is obvious, the risk of being stabbed while you charge at your enemy.

Edit: no innuendo intended. I meant like a dagger, a rock, or a claw weapon.

[Mask]

Unfortunately, we'll probably have to be satisfied with a simple throw/trip animation after you begin grappling. The game deciding whether you tackle them, or run up and grab them then do something, would add mechanical complexity. It would also require Chris to animate tackling and being tackled. For this reason, chokes are also unlikely, sadly.

Since in Kenshi group-fighting is common, a proper tackle where you end up on the ground with your opponent would be strategically unwise, also. Would mean you can't move to avoid attacks, unless you purposely give up your advantage over your current opponent by rolling in the dust. It would also mean you are fairly exposed to enemies, being on top--whereas, standing and wrestling, you can still shift around and use your enemy's body as a shield.

[Tolwrath]

When I said "widely favored" I wasn't talking about just the player. I'm sure bandits would love it. And the main positive of using it is that it holds an opponent out of the larger combat. For example, tackling a Holy Empire captain because he's stronger than your party. Your party would have time to beat the Holy Empire servants (is that what the underlings are called?) And could then gang up on the stronger Captain. The second positive is that it prevents use of large weapons, giving a way for a poorly equipped person to even the field in 1-vs-1 combat against someone well equipped or with a large weapon.

You're absolutely right about needing additional mechanics and animations though, it would require lots of extra effort.

Edit: come to think of it, those are pretty much the bonuses of all grappling., except you can't really throw someone from that position. You might be able to give a coup de grâce though.