[SOLVED] HOLD isn't very holdy?

[Sol Lignum]

Once meele characters on HOLD are in combat, the move around plenty while dispatching their targets, which results in losing of their initial position.

[Ocram]

Did you set to block too? If they move, they do a lot less.
I think hold is only intended to prevent characters from engaging in combat, if they get attacked they continue responding to the attack, yes this might take them far away from their original position but the way you intent it to work would require storing the current coordinates of that character, or creating a node on the fly at which pcs stick to. Maybe could be possible, maybe would be better, but I think you just need to get used to the current hold thingy. I still can't get all this problems about hold, sorry xd

[Sol Lignum]

Well, maybe i'm mistaking, but i think it worked that way before 0.98.11, characters would stand the point where HOLD was activated. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense, and is essentially just the renamed PASSIVE.

[Ocram]

At least for me, they do stand there without moving.
It was renamed to hold so that when you have RANGED active they shoot from their position, they aren't passive, they are holding position.
That problem you experiencing, is that a characher breaks his HOLD state once he gets attacked?

[Sol Lignum]

Sure, its' purpose is clear. However it wasn't just renamed, it was modified, to not just avoid combat, but so the characters would also "hold their position" as it clearly states in the description.

Yes, it happens once characters are attacked. They're picking targets from a considerable distance, and after the first hit they start to move like usually.

I consider it broken because a). it currently defies its' own description, and b). it was working as intended in versions .98 - .98.10

Idk, maybe it's time for another clean install.

UPD: Edited my initial post so the issue is more clear.

[Ocram]

Well, I don't find it that annoying, you still have a point about them moving while fighting, I guess there might be room for little tweaks on the hold thing.
To me tho, it seems yours isn't working correctly, at least not like mine works, maybe reinstalling might solve for you, or break it for me? xd
I'm not being very helpful at this point.

[Sol Lignum]

(...) I'm not being very helpful at this point.

For sure Anyway, i've reinstalled the game and going to check how's it going now. Will report back shortly.

UPD: Nope, reinstall was a long shot, and of course, it didn't worked.

Found another weird thing though: characters on HOLD are more prone to pick targets then characters with no stances. I.e.: as soon as character on hold is targeted by an enemy, they'll get ready and prepare for the fight themselves. Character with nothing selected, on the other hand, will stand still right until hit, and only then will engage in combat.

[Ocram]

They have to if ranged is enabled, but yeah they do also if ranged is disabled, might just need a double check on that.

[Captain Deathbeard]

Nothing should have changed there from the last version, they are expected to move around when fighting, the idea being that they don't have a choice mid-fight. I am thinking about making them return to their hold spot afterwards, but not sure if it would be better or not

[Ocram]

If you already know how you could do it, you might try and see how it goes, rolling back if it is too invasive.

The invasive part could be that characters will annoyingly stick to the hold position, unless you update it for movement orders, saving the players many HOLD clicks.
It's fine for base/camp defense setups (remember we have also the man turret job for that purpose tho), but when moving around I don't see the point of them sticking to a particular position, I see it more of a pre-fights tactic to chose the spot where to hold. Applied realistically, you don't always get a choice to plan tactics, but hey, where's the fun if shit never happen?

You could also change the HOLD to be more like the old PASSIVE and leave to RANGED the job the actual hold does, if ranged is enabled characters try to prioritise shooting over anything else, engaging in melee only if npcs are too close. Hold would tell characters to not move or fight by any circumstance, unless they get attacked in melee. This could cause them to act like shooting range for npcs, but it may be this way already.
When the fight is over, RANGED chars that also have the medic/robotics/splint job can run to heal allies, but not HOLDing chars, that only do so if the injured ally is in close range. You won't get the ally healed anyway if he is in combat, so this is not helping(unbalancing) the player too much.

Please do not forget that you could solve HOLDing chars engaging in combat by checking iif RANGED is also enabled, would make more sense if they also carried a ranged weapon for the ranged condition to be true, could also solve my other issue with attacking enemy animals.

I hope I didn't bring more confusion on the subject.

[Sol Lignum]

Okay, Captain, understood. I could swear they'd actually hold their spot pre 0.98.11. Oh well, i must be tired.

Maybe mod could move the topic to gameplay then, since it's not a bug? Should've done that at the first place myself, honestly.

And still, it seems weird that characters on hold are more agressive then non-stanced characters (picking targets way earlier, battle-ready way sooner)

[Captain Deathbeard]

And still, it seems weird that characters on hold are more agressive then non-stanced characters (picking targets way earlier, battle-ready way sooner)

Its because they have to be ready to intercept incoming attackers, otherwise they will get sucker punched all the time because their reactions would be too slow to defend the first strike. Even worse if they are supposed to be defending an archer and the enemy runs right past them.

[Sol Lignum]

Right, it isn't really passive anymore, but kind of a guard mode. Makes sense. Thanks a bunch for babysitting me on this. Will be adapting to the new fighting behaviours.