History Thread

[txfirefighter]

'what do you want next' in gameplay kinda got derailed.

here is a continuation of that thread.

we are discussing ancient sword making from celts, to romans to japanese.

im just reading what people put i know nothing other than where those people came from. lol

[Kamos]

A quick check show the Social Wars happened in Gaius Marius' time well after the Punic Wars were done with.
And that wasn't necessarily about seceding either. That was a war fought over voting rights and so if anything it was a war fought to make Rome even more united and powerful.
Plus the bloody Samnites had always been a thorn for the Romans.

[txfirefighter]

When did the big shift in Roman politics happen? It was founded as a republic right?

[Kamos]

I think ultimately it comes down to one man: Lucius Cornelius Sulla. He marched on Rome after getting sick of his political enemies and eventually appointed himself dictator for life in essence. This set precedent for a number of things: Marching on Rome which had never been done, armies following their generals not Rome, slaughtering political opponents, and a Dictator for life position(though he eventually retired).
That set the stage for Julius Caesar and Augustus down the the line decades later.

[txfirefighter]

was it caesar that first declared himself an emporer?

[Kamos]

No Caesar never got that far. He was declared Dictator a while before being stabbed to death though he did manage quite a bit of political reformation. Later it was Octavian who created the mantle of Emperor after defeating Mark Anthony becoming Augustus.

[txfirefighter]

i could listen to you for hours man....

[Prezo]

its like a roman orgy for the ears

I'm more of a modern history man myself but due to my recent uptake of reenactment I've been researching dark ages stuff, although I find the Romans particularly interesting I mostly focus on combat when I do ancient research

[txfirefighter]

i like the romans and their spreading through gaul and germany. im really taking a liking to the celtic stuff now.

[Kamos]

Now that's a hell of a story there. I remember reading through most of Julius Caesars accounts of the conquest of Gaul.
And to think it all started out with stopping the Helvetii tribe from migrating through Roman lands. Note they weren't even trying to settle Roman lands but just pass through them.
Reading about Caesar going from tribe to tribe taking down his opposition at every turn. They all seemed to have some focus even. One group had an impressive fleet, another had impressive cavalry, some attacked the Romans so swiftly they went from building a fort to desperately holding a line.
Engaing Ariovistus on behalf of Roman allies.
Vercingetorix of course.

[txfirefighter]

you are getting me interested in reading this. do you recommend a book on caesars conquest of gaul?

[Kamos]

Honestly it's been so long since I read it I can't recall what it was called.

[txfirefighter]

[Kamos]

Well he's a pretty good overview. However it doesn't seem to be as in depth as the one I read.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... hapter%3D1

[Blxz]

New thread, nice. I've been away but I guess I can try and keep up.

And you are right about the roman social war. I fucked up. Got my dates mixed up with one of the greek social wars. It happened around 220BC and is completely unrelated to the topic we were on about. Although there were indeed a bunch of the Socii rebelling during the invasion of Hannibal in Italy... but not nearly as many as he had hoped for or needed.

Sulla was indeed an interesting man. It's hard to know exactly how to define him. Seems too easy to call him 'evil' and unpatriotic but the situation is complicated. He did certainly set the precedent for Caesar and his nephew to later take hold. Although even Marius can be credited with some of that with his reorganisation of the armies and the general as the main head more-so than the Senate itself; but perhaps the size of the Republic contributed more? I am unsure on many of the details of the later republic and early empire as I tend to prefer the greek world of the diadochi.

[txfirefighter]

Well he's a pretty good overview. However it doesn't seem to be as in depth as the one I read.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... hapter%3D1

reading it now. interesting stuff.