Travel & Combat Formation

[Zaxes]

After searching around a while i did not find much info on this topic so I thought id pitch an idea out there. It's not a very complicated one (I Think) but I feel it would be a decent addition in the future if not already planned (and chances are most of it probably is).

Being that this is a RTS format I feel that formations come big into play here. I figured it might be a good idea to allow the troops to move in a selected order based on the activity the player is trying to preform.

In such

Travel- This one is not vastly important but i feel its still nice to have. perhaps one formation could be a line, where the player could set his stronger units up front and have the weaker ones in the back so they don't take a big hit, or maybe we could just have them moving in a horizontal line with a little distance, or even have the player dictate the distance.

Combat- I thought it also would benefit the player to say how he wants to attack an enemy. perhaps the player would want to ask his units to make an attempt at surrounding the enemy before they attack to keep that enemy in check, or use a V formation to wedge the enemy into two separate groups.

and lastly my final idea is to allow the player to set up custom formations from these two categories and let the player decide what is best for the situation that the player is in. maybe have the orders set up in phases like layers is to Photoshop.

ex. first attempt to flank on the right, then move in and attack, make it these two units (very small example)

first real attempt at a contribution to the cause so don't hate me too hard >_<

***EDIT***

This is pretty basic stuff so allow me to expand on this idea just in case this is already planned out.(i should have called this Tactics xD)

for combat preparation why not be able to "program" what the units should do in combat in the form of a few "IF" "THEN" statements.

such as...
EX.

IF _____ THEN _____
IF any limb is below 25% THEN enable block

this way you can efficiently fight any battle.
we could also expand on THAT idea and use it for basic actions as well

EX.

IF unit enters town THEN go to the doctor

but on this you could add more to it buy being able to place AND statements where needed.

EX.

IF unit enters town AND any limb under 50% THEN go to doctor AND purchase service

in terms of combat there most likely will need to be a check to the order of how these tactics are applied as well

so follow 1st IF THEN statement then go to the next and so on.

EX. (final product will look like...)


1) UNIT Zaxes IF combat starts THEN flank target to the right
2) UNIT Zaxes IF any limb lower than 25% THEN Toggle Block
3) UNIT Zaxes IF target dies AND ally has block toggled THEN Attack allies target

in essence that what i was thinking it would look like in a simple line of commands as an example of what a player could string together

just have a series of actions to almost bring your units to life in a way.

just a thought

[Captain Deathbeard]

I do plan to add formations eventually, but not for a while because its not a simple task. Imagine what happens when formations encounter cramped areas or cliffs.

I also plan to have a detailed AI panel where you can set each characters behaviour and reactions, but I haven't thought much yet about the exact details of it.

[Zaxes]

I do plan to add formations eventually, but not for a while because its not a simple task. Imagine what happens when formations encounter cramped areas or cliffs.

I also plan to have a detailed AI panel where you can set each characters behaviour and reactions, but I haven't thought much yet about the exact details of it.

one thing at a time of course. I am glad to know its being thought of in the future. keep up the good work and ill see what a I can do about sending some financial support in the future that go-go page still works for donations right?

[dragyouintohell]

I come on here thing thinking bout if Chris is going to add formations, and I see your post.

[Zaxes]

well i don't want to push the issue. The guy is taking on a ton of work alone, so i guess he will get to it when the time comes around for it.

[SamuraiNZ]

I think/know its needed.

Instead of the squad all piling into blob formation after reaching the end of a move order.
lets have some variations.

military double lines tight/long
the triangle or pyramid
even the shaka zulu "bulls head" formation (awesome and deadly in melee)

and and and also have placements so the weak or ranged at the back and the tanks or attackers at the front, that kind of thing.

possibly have a stretched travel formation for finding enemy's and the single line to hide numbers and avoid attention.

Because as this game progresses and grows it will highlighted in years to come as the best sandbox ever created. IMHO

SamuraiNZ

[skynet464]

Already suggested.

[Danzigsam]

Yah, I can't wait for formations. That's gonna be awesome.

[Hatsune_Neko]

http://www.lofigames.com/phpBB3/viewtop ... 8793#p8793

[SamuraiNZ]

yep excellent post suggestion!
and its something worth the wait but the complexities may incur a slightly lengthy wait, sadly.

[judd257]

I've found formations & pats mentioned a time or two in the forum, but I'm posting about them again b/c I think they are that important. Even in alpha placing your people in some kind of formation and having coinciding attacks helps the fight go cleaner, with less accidental damage. I think a rally feature would also make large battles seem more realistic, as morale is a very big part of combat. And, of course, patrols are a must for any compound.
One last thing i would like to mention is an ambush ability, which I think has also been mentioned before. Being able to burrow into the sand, and hiding amongst tall grass, trees, or even large caravans would give the game a very realistic human element that I think is missing in many games.
I get the idea from some of the other features that many small squad/large company tactics will be implemented, but I had to give my two cents..

Anyway, this game is ground breaking, good job!

oh and left-handed samurais are needed!

[Deathhood98]

Yeah all of these have been suggested no use in posting duplicate threads they will almost always get locked by a mod

Edit: Or merged

[PnzrNorm]

I do plan to add formations eventually, but not for a while because its not a simple task. Imagine what happens when formations encounter cramped areas or cliffs.

I also plan to have a detailed AI panel where you can set each characters behaviour and reactions, but I haven't thought much yet about the exact details of it.

Just going to throw my two bits out for this topic.

If you've ever played any of the Total War games, then you've experienced the possibilities for formations and tactics with large numbers of models moving around different, convoluted landscapes.
Currently, Kenshi's Follow command works as a pretty sturdy foundation to the creation of formations. I've noticed on more than one occasion that the chars with the Follow command will "attach" themselves to the char they are Following, properly reducing their Run speed to match his/her level and run in such a manner as to maintain their current position on the xz-plane in relation to the char they are following.
Formations in Total War are entirely possible with Kenshi's current Follow system, provided that you spend the time properly placing each squad member to Follow the squad member adjacent to them in a pattern such that the char with the slowest Run speed is the root Leader of the group. Granted, with this method you're only capable of running somewhat tight formations, but its still a very possible thing.
Perhaps a recursive Follow function that will place chars in a specific position on the xz-plane in relation to other chars in the formation as well as the orientation of the formation.
As a bonus, I've also seen the Follow command properly navigate members that get stuck or "lag behind" back to the char the stuck char is still Following, so navigating formations through areas of impassable terrain may not be that complicated, provided there aren't pathfinding issues already present with the encountered terrain.

The detailed AI panel sounds like an amazing resource.
However, my mind goes to the AI panel of Dragon Age (however annoying that got after 5 hours, its still a resource). It was entirely possible to "program" your chars down to the letter to be able to fight in a general sense, but it also got entirely too tiresome having to re-program all your chars every single fight in order to handle a different threat or to play different roles. And that was only 3 chars each fight to "program". Kenshi doesn't have as many threats yet, but I believe its better to design with the future in mind.
Currently when a char has a Permanent Job to do and is sent out of the outpost on an adventure, expedition, trade mission, what have you, the moment they are not being controlled by the player, they will run the hundreds of miles all the way back to base to do that Job.
I believe that in order to make "programming" your chars in Kenshi better than any game has tried previously, one of two things needs to happen with the currently available amount of "programming". Each command/Job should come with a toggleable on/off button, and/or it should be possible to "create a role", or a saved list of commands, that can be assigned to any members of your squad. This will cut down the amount of time spent "programming" and will allow large amounts of chars to be given the same task, such as combat tactics, escorting, medic, or whatever the player wants.

I will continue to update this post as I come up with more ideas for the detailed AI panel to throw at you Chris. Keep up the good work!

EDIT: I'm copying/pasting the section about the AI Panel to another thread, as its entirely out of context, but I will leave it here with a different font color as reference.

The other thread is located here:
http://www.lofigames.com/phpBB3/viewtop ... =16&t=5797

[Musclemonte80]

I know this is an old thread, but maybe there could be a menu that is a 20X20 grid or something like that. Then the player would drop squad members onto their place in the grid, name the formation, and BOOM! it could allow for a few single button click, user-defined formations.